THE VALUE OF PARTICIPANT FEEDBACK: INSIGHTS FROM LEARNERS IN A NOVEL, NON-UNIVERSITY CLE SETTING IN CHINA

In the scholarship on Clinical Legal Education (CLE), there is relatively little attention to “insider” (participant) perspectives,1 a skew towards Global North CLE studies, and little exploration of innovations that may take CLE beyond the setting of formal tertiary education. Taking these critical observations as its starting point, and seeking to extend the scholarship in these regards, this paper explores data from 72 feedback questionnaires completed in 2011 and 2012 by participants over two courses of a semester-long, English-Mandarin bilingual a novel legal education program in the People’s Republic of China (China). The program was called the Yilian Advocacy Training Tournament (义联杯“公益倡导竞技性训练项目”; YATT), and it was run by a

it arose through adaption to the Chinese context but, as this article will argue, is relevant beyond that context. As the article explains, university-led CLE in China has faced constraints which civil-society legal assistance organisations have not, and so the space for increasing CLE opportunities and developing a publicly interested culture of legal practice is not necessarily within law schools. However, those civil society organisations face their own constraints. This is why showcasing novel CLE is useful: it models flexible adaptations to local conditions. Overall, this article illustrates what pragmatically indigenising CLE could mean: stepping back and seeing the university context as a feature that can be innovatively transformed, rather than a paradigmatic essential of CLE. The article uses the feedback of YATT's participants to investigate the program from an internal, or "emic" perspective rather than trying to impose onto it existing typologies from the literature.
It thus complements the literature, which primarily analyses CLE programs from the external perspectives of the facilitators/clinicians. The article aims to achieve something more useful that "proving" that YATT is CLE according to the CLE definitions designed for typical university contexts: it aims to expose what was valuable and meaningful to this programs' participants in order to show that innovations to the roles of universities and civil society organisations can expand our ideas of how to offer publicly-interested practical legal education to university students.

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In this respect, the article acknowledges, but puts aside, the long-standing debate as to whether CLE is separate from, or overlapping with, PLT. 8 I begin from the premise that the strict distinction is a heuristic. This heuristic derives from the regulation of admission to legal practice in some countries, with PLT referring to the prescribed vocational training. 9 A related division is made by some scholars -and contested by others -between "real" clinical work as CLE and scenario/simulation-based practical legal education at PLT. 10 However, this strict division does not necessarily serve the global expansion and indigenisation of CLE. The YATT participants' experiences reveal that strict separations between CLE and PLT, and between university and nonuniversity CLE, are heuristics not necessarily shared with, or meaningful to, participants. Moreover, neither CLE nor PLT perfectly describes YATT, yet we may lose relevant knowledge if we exclude this study from either. I therefore urge readers to put aside the CLE definitional debates and accept Dowdle's pragmatic outlook: hybrid, indigenised innovations like YATT can serve real needs, especially in national contexts and legal cultures that otherwise inhibit the provision of canonical university-led CLE and the development of a culture of public interest lawyering.

Australian Clinical Legal Education: Designing and Operating a Best Practice Clinical Program in an
Australian Law School, ANU Press, p.43. 9 For example, in England and many Commonwealth countries, but not all common law countries: Burke, J. and Zillmann, H. (2018) 'Creating a Gold Standard for Practical Legal Training in Common Law Countries.' Journal of International and Comparative Law 5(1) p.29. 10 Evans et al.,n8, education (to use an intentionally category-blurring term) can nevertheless share goals, as well as challenges and solutions, with CLE in more typical university contexts.
Based on the analysis of YATT feedback data, the study finds that participants' feedback echoes characteristic features and purposes of CLE; participants experienced YATT as a CLE variety. Moreover, the feedback analysis shows the many aspects that motivated students, beyond university grades and course credits, making nonuniversity-led CLE a more viable prospect. These findings in turn support the broader arguments that simulations embedded in real contexts, and civil society organisations university professors; direct cooperation between the government and students to draft laws protecting disadvantaged groups; and community-level engagement where students are taken to rural communities to do litigation, legislative drafting, civic education, process analysis, and survey-based research. All were dubbed 'Innovative, indigenous adaptations of CLE'. 15 By 2004, Pottenger reported that there were a dozen legal clinics run by Chinese law schools. 16  <https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/china-more-than-300-rights-lawyers-detained-innationwide-crackdown-including-lawyers-who-handled-cases-on-corporate-abuses-at-least-5-faceformal-charges >.

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14 universities once, taking the lead in designing and running the project. YATT was offered by Yilian Centre to voluntarily participating students from universities in Beijing. Each course of the program took about one semester and involved five activities: mock trial, impromptu public speaking, mock client interviewing, mock labour negotiation and debate. Each activity was undertaken twice by the participants, first in a practice round and then in an assessed round. Their scores were accumulated over the rounds. The activities were scenario-style CLE (on scenario CLE, see further 'Literature review: The purposes of clinical legal education, generally and in China', below), all original to YATT and all designed for experiential learning. Each scenario's design and its training materials were based on Yilian Centre's own case files (mainly labour class actions and criminal matters), its survey-based research and its research into trends in case law. For each round, there were professional volunteers to give feedback and evaluate/score the students. Each activity's preparation, running, scoring and feedback discussions were facilitated by Yilian staff who had been involved in the YATT curriculum and activity design, some of whom also had university teaching experience. After the five rounds of activities, there was a grand final activity in which selected participants delivered a prepared speech on law and policy reform, again based on Yilian Centre's research and actual cases. These speeches were delivered to a judging panel comprising selected professional volunteers and an audience comprising the other students and professional volunteers, as well as other associates of Yilian Centre. These volunteers included legal academics from various universities and Renmin University Law School was a

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15 key partner for the provisions of activity space. Activities often took place within the Yilian Centre, where participants sometimes informally met actually clients and Yilian staff, or in Renmin's classrooms on weekends.
The learners in YATT were Chinese university students from several universities in Beijing, participating together in the same program. They were predominantly law students, with a small number of undergraduate students from other disciplines who intended to study postgraduate law in the future. There were about 25 students in the YATT cohort each year, with a smaller group for the first activity then increasing numbers, as word of mouth spread. Each activity was offered in a Mandarin-medium and an English-medium version, with students able to elect their language preference. Yilian Centre staff prepared original, bilingual education materials tailored for the students, which were provided to them ahead of each training activity to assist them prepare. These included instructions, role allocations, fact scenarios and a glossary of key terms.
Each YATT activity also involved practicing Chinese and foreign lawyers, advocates, legal academics or other professionals in applied legal work, as volunteers. These professional volunteers acted in an adjudication and mentoring role in each YATT activity, undertaking brief training, providing written scores, completing feedback forms about the students' performance, and providing oral feedback in discussions with the students right after each activity. Some professional volunteers assisted many times, while others assisted just once or twice. There was a corps of about 20 professional volunteers each year, plus about five Yilian staff who regularly facilitated and judged the activities. Because YATT's CLE activities were in scenario form, in some activities these volunteers also played a scenario role, in addition to their pedagogic role of assessing and giving feedback. For example, they acted as judges in mock trial courtrooms. A version of Yilian Centre's original preparatory education materials tailored for the professional volunteers was provided to them ahead of each training activity. General updates on YATT, photos and schedules were also provided periodically to the professional volunteers via email bulletins.
A reason for both YATT and this case study of it is CLE is not widely reported in China in the literature and, 23 in the author's experience, was not common on the mainland nor in Hong Kong. (Tam reports that CLE has increased at Hong Kong's leading law school in the last decade; 24 this trend may permeate the mainland but the culture of experiential legal education both at and after law school is different in Hong Kong, owing to its closer ties to the international common law culture of education and practice.) A shortage of CLE has been seen as a contributing factor in the underdevelopment of a public interest culture of legal practice, but the lack of this culture has also inhibited the development of CLE at Chinese universities, as Cai and Pottenger point out. 25 Lee suggested that 'Legal aid and research NGOs have the potential to fill gaps in the state legal aid system by building a commitment to public 23 Cai and Pottenger, n3, p.90 explain why practice-based learning is limited at Chinese law schools. 24 Tam,n1,p.47. 25 Cai and Pottenger,n3,p.100. interest work among lawyers'. YATT's organisers understood YATT as an attempt to fill the gap in university CLE and as an effort to build a commitment to public interest legal work amongst future lawyers by seeding a culture amongst law students.
Moreover, the Global Network for Public Interest Law's China Fellows consider legal aid, non-government advocacy and engaging the private sector through pro bono as the means of advancing the interests of the public which all need to happen at once. 26 However, situations in China where such organisations could all work together on one joint endeavour were rare when the YATT project was initiated. In this climate, the drivers behind the YATT were pragmatic; it was conceived as a project to strengthen the Yilian Centre's network while responding to unmet needs in terms of local CLE and career progression into, or awareness of, public interest advocacy.
Moreover, YATT was intended to be unlike most Chinese legal education in order to foster public interest legal skills -namely critical debate and speaking on behalf of others -which were perceived to be largely absent from conventional Chinese schooling. 27 Reviewed Article 20 workplaces'; 35 and offering a 'study of law and lawyering in context' 36 as opposed to the study which is offered in doctrinal lectures and examinations, to cite a few representative statements. These different expressions of purpose reveal a shared theme: to provide learning through practical and active experiences of legal work.

Literature review: The purposes of clinical legal education, generally and in
Recognising this, Jeff Giddings, in one of the more recent theoretical discussions of what constitutes CLE, contends that active or experiential learning -as practice-based learning is referred to in pedagogy -is a core feature of CLE. 37 'Active learning' is an umbrella term, 38 meaning learning that involves both doing and thinking of a high order i.e. analytic, synthetic and evaluative thinking, and experiential learning is an important mode of active learning. 39 An overlapping term used in CLE studies is 'problem-based learning'. 40 This purpose of practical learning shapes the formal characteristics of CLE (and, for that matter, PLT). There must be practical tasks, there must be learning "by doing". definition emphasises not only that students of CLE must be exposed to practical situations from which to learn, but that their learning must incorporate and foster reflection. 48 This has been more recently re-emphasised by Giddings with co-authors: In addition to reflection, experiential/active learning methods include discussion over materials, debate, role-playing and collaboration. The use of simulated real-world events typifies active learning in Stewart-Wingfield and Black's study. 54 This sort of learning is not necessarily better than passive learning in all contexts, 55 but 'active course designs, specifically, an experiential design, result in students perceiving their learning to be more meaningful to their future jobs', as

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24 study of business students found. 56 Legal education is analogously vocational, and therefore law students are also likely to perceive experiential learning to be more meaningful than passive learning to future jobs. Because experiential learning is integral to the purpose of CLE (and PLT), key characteristics of CLE activities include (but are not limited to) the following characteristics: (a) learning activities that allow for experiential learning, especially a real or hypothetical client/audience with a problem to be overcome; And what of the university setting as a characteristic? Notably, a leading CLE scholar, Giddings does not define a specific or leading role for universities in CLE, while emphasising its active learning nature: 'Clinical legal education involves an intensive small group or solo learning experience in which each student takes responsibility for legal or law-related work for a client (whether real or simulated) in collaboration with a supervisor.
Structures enable each student to receive feedback on their contribution and to take the opportunity to learn from their experiences through reflecting on matters' 57 . 56 Stewart-Wingfield & Black, n54, p.123. 57 Giddings, above n37. However, the studies and actual clinics about which Giddings is writing are university based, so perhaps he does not feel the need to explicitly state that universities are an essential feature of CLE. However, the path for innovation being explored here is alternatives that may satisfy the experiential legal learning elements of Giddings' definition even without a university in charge; they should also share CLE's ultimate purposes.

The ultimate purposes of practical legal education
If we consider experiential learning as a means to an end, not an end itself, we can shift our gaze to the ultimate purposes of CLE. In many cases in the literature, an intermediate purpose of experiential learning couples neatly with either or both of two further purposes, the vocational preparation of lawyers, and providing legal services in the public interest. In looking at these emergent, shared purposes, rather than definitions, we also see that the CLE/PLT division is blurred such that maintaining that division for this study is not useful. To begin, vocational training is unequivocally a purpose of PLT 58 but also a stated purpose for many CLE providers: the Law School of China's Central University of Finance and Economics, for example, now boasts of its 'special emphasis on case teaching and the "legal clinics" education most Chinese law schools. 59 Moreover, a clear, shared purpose that emerges from the scholarship and from CLE providers' own discourses is that which I will summarily call a public interest purpose. This is expressed variously scholars and educators as providing 'service learning' 60 ; 'justice access' 61 ; 'social justice' 62 ; or 'support[ing] the wider and more fundamental task of maintaining the rule of law' 63 . An ambition of seeding a culture of public interest lawyering amongst lawyers of the future lies behind many Anglo-American law schools' CLE programs, and behind the more recent emergence of CLE in Europe; 64 a related, public service mindset has likewise driven CLE in the former Soviet states. 65  such as Tsinghua University Law School's legal clinics. 68 But the point of public interest CLE is not simply to use student labour to increase the public's access to the justice system and legal advice. Rather, the purpose of having students take on lawyers' roles is so that they can learn more broadly the social impact of the laws they are studying and of the role of legal rights, legal illiteracy and inequality in their society. That is, the experiential learning achieves the purpose of serving the public interest not only because it provides assistance to specific clients in need but because, through experiencing the public interest element of lawyering in a social context, students are socialised into a publicly interested culture of legal practice, which nourishes that culture for the future.
For some, this public interest purpose defines CLE. In their leading recent book, Evans et al. maintain that CLE is different from other practical legal learning (e.g. PLT or work-integrated learning) in that only CLE 'is intended to develop a critical and analytical consciousness of law', going beyond a '"how to" approach' and 'strengthening the academic phase of legal education in the interests of students and clients' 69 . That is, of the various practically based forms of legal education, only CLE provides a social service and targets the maintenance of a socially aware, publiclyinterested legal culture. However, others frame this sort of public service as integral to the legal vocation and therefore integral to vocational legal training, not only to 68 Pottenger, n11, p.71. 69 Evans et al., n8, p.43. CLE: for example, Burke and Zillmann argue that imbuing 'public service' values is are part of the 'gold standard' for common law PLT 70 . This challenges CLE's monopoly on publicly interested practical legal education. Even more importantly, in the context of this case study, and the wider exploration of civil-society-led CLE to which it contributes, the distinction between CLE and other forms of practical legal education without a public interest orientation falls away, because civil society organisations are often -arguably by definition -publicly interested. Specifically, here, Yilian Center was deliberately trying to increase social service lawyering by developing a critical consciousness of law amongst both student and professional participants in order to increase their interest in, and skills for public interest advocacy, within a legal culture weak in those respects. Akin to classical CLE program, it sought to strengthen legal education during the academic phase in the ultimate interest of not only students but clients and other beneficiaries of public interest advocacy in China, but in a radically different way that did not rely on university leadership or backing.
In light of the literature, this study therefore takes experiential legal education to be characteristic of CLE, dovetailing with either/both of a vocational preparation and a public interest purpose. Additional characteristics of CLE, in its typical university context, are the assessment resources of formal education: grades and course credits. 70 Burke and Zillmann, n9, p.41

University based characteristics of CLE: assessment and motivation
In university led CLE, formal assessment (including pass/fail grading) is ever-present as one kind of motivational resource but this does not mean that formal assessment needs to be an essential component of CLE; few CLE educators would posit grades as the only reason they offer their courses, or the only reason students take them; actually, many of China's earliest university-led legal clinics gave students 'no academic credit for their work' 71 . In looking to expand CLE beyond universities we must confront the fact that these motivational resources may not be available at all. In designing YATT, therefore, care was taken to create motivation which could stand in place of the academic grades and credits which are characteristic rewards in formal tertiary education.
In educational theory, learner motivation can be analysed within a framework of various learner orientations and their corresponding interests, aims and concerns.
Such a framework is represented here in Figure 1 Reviewed Article 30 intrinsic and extrinsic interests correspond to these orientations. 74 Thus, pedagogic theory -chiefly this and related learner orientation models -predicts that for an educational activity to work well, it should motivate students and/or respond to their existing motivations. Better activities will respond to multiple learner orientations, and to both the intrinsic and extrinsic interests corresponding to those orientations, because learners have varied combinations of orientations.
This theory predicts that the kind of formal grading and accreditation which a university led CLE can offer (but which civil-society-led activities cannot offer) will likely motivate learners' because it caters to learners' vocational, academic and personal orientations. Specifically, as represented in Figure 1, formal CLE course accreditation is part of attaining a qualification, which is theorised as an extrinsic interest within a vocational orientation; formal accreditation is part of educational progression, which is theorised an extrinsic interest within an academic orientation; and the grades for a CLE course (and any feedback offered) are forms of compensation for learning and proof of new capability, which are theorised as extrinsic interests within a personal orientation to learning.  A challenge for non-university led CLE in general, then, and specifically for YATT, is to build extrinsic motivators into the educational activity without relying on formal assessment and accreditation. The aim of the YATT designers was to do so by structuring the module as a competition, with scores and rewards in the form of recognition in the bulletin and in selection for the grand final activity. The winners received additional rewards (publication and internship opportunities through Yilian Centre.) We also made sure we provided a certificate of participation to all students in a ceremony at the final activity in order that they could have proof of their learning in future contexts (e.g. job or postgraduate course applications). We built in feedback as a core element of each activity, and, provided guidance to the professional volunteers on how to give feedback, which provides a form of extrinsic, personal motivation other than passing the CLE course. We also tried to emphasise the intrinsic motivations in YATT, knowing that we could not rely as heavily as a university can on extrinsic motivation. For example, amongst other measures, we explicitly communicated the training elements of YATT and the activities links with the Centre's real work, to spark an intrinsic vocational interest, and the facilitators aimed to create an enjoyable and friend-making environment at all activities to create a social motivation. We built in motivators and rewards for the professional volunteers, also.
In this case study, the Yilian Centre sought to take on the role of running a public interest practical legal education program. Because YATT was designed to meet a need for more public interest lawyering and for more experiential learning of law, it appeared then (and still appears) to the author and others organising and designing YATT as similar in some fundamental ways to university led CLE. The key question to examine, however, is whether the purposes and characteristic components of CLE

Methodology
Overall, I undertook two forms of qualitative analysis (recurrent thematic and directed content analysis) of free-text responses in 72 completed feedback questionnaires held by Yilian Centre after having been returned by the participants of the 2011 and 2012 YATT cohorts, as well as a simple quantitative analysis of the multiple choice responses on these same 72 questionnaires. These questionnaires were designed to assist Yilian Centre reflect on the program during its implementation; they were not designed for statistical research purposes. As such, this study does not rely on a deep quantitative analysis. In particular, the surveys were not designed for regression analysis and the overall number of possible respondents can be estimated (see below) but not verified, because no count of their distribution was recorded.
Responding was not obligatory but the utility of the feedback was explained to participants and responding to the survey was requested; the author observed very high rates of response at activities. Given the relatively sparsity of experiential CLE in These feedback questionnaires were provided in hard copy to the students and volunteer participants after three activities in the first YATT program (mock trial, public speaking and client interviewing) and after two activities in the second YATT program (mock trial and public speaking). The questionnaires -which were provide din both Mandarin and English -did not ask for names, but they did ask whether the participant was a student or professional volunteer, and then they asked a series of  those in the feedback, but to identify alignment between the feedback and the literature on learning and, specifically, on learning through CLE.

Results and critical analysis of participants' feedback
This Most said they 'developed activity-specific skills' through the activities. In addition, most respondents 'enjoyed' the activities. What they enjoyed most was practical

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39 learning and feedback, as the free-response questions and an additional multiplechoice question in 2012 showed. Building on this, the thematic analysis of the freeresponse feedback shows that participants identified various legal skills as the primary activity-specific skills that they had developed, but also linguistic/communicative skills.
Overall, four prominent themes emerge, and I coded them as Learning; Professionalism of the Activity; Positive Experience; and Negative Experience.
Within these major themes, multiple sub-themes were often found, as shown in Appendix A.
The sub-themes associated with Learning were especially strong across the dataset, Overall, the most recurrent sub-theme was Feedback from Professional Volunteers.
Responses relating to this theme were either positive, and about getting feedback from the professional volunteers, or negative and about wanting more feedback from the professional volunteers. Feedback from Professional Volunteers was an emergent rather than directed theme. However, learner orientation theory (visualised in Figure   1) explicitly relates feedback to Compensation or Proof of Capability, which is one of the directed themes of analysis. In a practical learning context, feedback is arguably also part of Training, Educational Progression and Self-Improvement, all aims identified in the literature review which became directed themes for this analysis.
Thus, another alignment between the two types of thematic analysis of the response data appeared, strengthening the finding that participants' perceptions of YATT

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41 aligned with one of CLE's core characteristic, practical learning, with the purpose of vocational legal training, and with educational theory on learner motivations and aims. As the detailed analysis below progresses through the questions, I will draw attention to the building evidence for this finding of alignment.

Feedback on valued aspects of activities
The questionnaires began with multiple choice questions enquiring into which aspects of YATT the participants themselves had valued (Set 1). In relation to that day's activity, participants were asked:

'What was your feeling about the [Mock Trial/Impromptu Speaking/Client
Interviewing Set 1's free-response question allowed us to explore with more specificity what aspects of YATT the participants, and to find emergent themes aligning to the contentdirected theme Having A Good Time.
Participants were asked what aspect of that day's activity they enjoyed. Feedback from Professional Volunteers was a theme that recurred often as an aspect enjoyed by the participants across the mock trial, public speaking and client interview activities (see Figure 3).    In 2012, the same question was asked but without reference to training sessions i.e.

Activity and number of respondents
participants were asked to consider preparation materials only.

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47 Three respondents chose "A" (Very suitable) and 11 chose "B" (Basically suitable), with no negative responses; topic design, an aspect of the training materials, therefore appears to have been functional.
Thus, the multiple-choice feedback in Set 2 of the questionnaire provides an indication that the YATT educational materials were helpful and appropriate, at least for mock trial, public speaking and client interviewing. While these multiple choice answers do not directly tell us whether YATT was seen as having the purposes of CLE, it nevertheless establishes YATT was experienced as an educational experience; the participants were satisfied that they were being provided training and/or materials which prepared them to try new tasks. Moreover, this response data indicateswithout being able to compressively establish -that for most respondents the motivational aim of Training (theorised as an aim of vocationally-oriented learners: Figure 1) was provided. The feedback on developing skills through YATT, dealt with in the following section, adds further weight to this supposition.

Feedback on developing skills
In 2011, students -but not professional volunteers -were asked this Set 3 question about developing skills: To what degree do you feel that you have developed effective activity-specific skills?
A. A great deal; D. Not at all.
The single biggest cohort of respondents were from the mock trial activity, and the majority (n=19/29) of them answered "A" (n=6) or "B" (n=13), as Figure 4 visualises.
That is, the majority of students felt they had developed some level of skill specific to the mock trial activity. The majority of public speaking and client interviewing students, too, felt they had developed some level of skill specific to those activities. The responses were, like in 2011, mainly positive for mock trial (14/14 responding "A" or "B"), but, contrasting with the other data, less positive for public speaking. Six of 2012's 15 public speaking students responded "A" (n=5) or "B" (n=1), but five answered "C" (Not very much), two gave no response, and two responses did not select from the multiple choice options but gave a free response. These two wrote that they needed more practice to improve their skills. This was included in the thematic analysis, and, coded as 'more practice needed'. The questionnaire invited those answering "C" or "D" to provide further details; unfortunately, all but one declined to provide further details. One who had responded "C" (Not very much) wrote that it was because he or she had studied the content before.
Even with the comparatively less positive results for 2012's public speaking, the multiple choice responses overall affirm that participants felt that activity-specific skills were developed. This supports the argument that YATT was experienced as 81 '你觉得你际演讲的技巧提高有多少？ a. 非常多; b. 很多; c. 不太多; d. 一点也没有.' practical learning. Set 3's free-response analysis, below, clarifies that this was an experience of practical legal learning.
In both years, the students were then asked to freely nominate which activity-specific skills they had developed. In relation to the mock trials across both years, the most prominent skills in the responses were legal practice skills including defence, applying legal knowledge to facts and court procedure. In 2011's client interviewing, other similar skills emerged, such as building trust and understanding the law and legal processes (all coded as Practice-based Legal Learning). Specifically looking at the responses identifying applying legal knowledge, this is 'exposition-application' pedagogy, 82 and it is characteristic of legal education (not just CLE) as well as legal practice. These responses indicate YATT was experienced as legal education.
The second most prominent set of mock-trial-specific skills students nominated were language skills, including expression and organising language. Confidence and logical reasoning also featured in a few responses. These fall within the theme of Practice-based Language Learning. Public speaking students' feedback was also about developing language skills as well as legal skills. In 2011, in the responses about the impromptu public speaking, students nominated as the activity-specific skills they had developed: oratory skills including speaking clearly; organising ideas; responding quickly; and adapting to being on stage. In addition to these skills, one 2011 public speaking student and four 2012 public speaking students specified their 82 Chavkin, n44.
foreign language skills as an area that had improved through the activity, noting their ability to express themselves improved, and listing improvements in speaking speed and rhythm, communicating through facial expression and gestures, speaking with feeling, and language use. In 2012's impromptu public speaking, a number of respondents nominated their general 'public speaking skills' as a skill that improved and nominated the specific skills of thinking up content; applying legal knowledge to a problem; improved confidence/skills for dealing with nerves; and improved speaking style.

Thus, the themes of Practice-based Legal Learning and Practice-based Language
Learning both emerge for the same activities, and their interrelationship emerges also.
Moreover, recalling that Practice-based Learning is a theme that emerged strongly in the feedback responses on valuable and enjoyable aspects of YATT (Set 1) and the Set 2's multiple choice responses suggested the training elements of YATT were experienced as education, Set 3's feedback analysis reveals consistency. These detailed results are a building picture of YATT as experienced primarily as practical legal education.

Negative feedback
In both years, the questionnaires also asked which aspect of the activity the participants did not enjoy (Set 4). Most of the disliked aspects of mock trial, public speaking and client interview activities were nominated uniquely (only by one Reviewed Article 52 respondent) and therefore could not be thematically analysed. However, one aspect which multiple participants did not enjoy in the 2011 mock trials was that the fact scenarios were not sufficiently detailed. In 2012, in relation to impromptu public speaking, common negatives included not having enough preparation time; not having enough opportunity to practice and thereby improve; wanting more feedback from the professional volunteers; and wanting Mandarin-language feedback for English-language speeches in order to understand the feedback better.
Some of these negative aspects -especially not getting enough practice -certainly suggest that YATT failed to fully realise practice-based learning, but they also suggest these participants thought YATT should be practice-based. Taken together with the positive responses to the questions analysed above, it is clear that YATT was not seen as devoid of practice-based learning, just not always practical enough.
Further, as noted in the section on 'Feedback on valued aspects of activities', above, feedback is theorised as fuelling an interest in learning for personally oriented learners (see Figure 1). While YATT course designed included written and oral, quantitative and qualitative feedback, satisfying more students' expectations as to feedback could have further motivated students.

Feedback on the overall project
Rounding out the questionnaire, Set 5 asked respondents for their overall, free- It was only at this point that two participants noted that the public interest aspect of

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Finally, common negative comments in the overall impressions included that the materials were not detailed enough, that the number of student participants could be increased, and that students wanted more opportunities to interact (formally) in the activities. Making such changes would likely assist YATT, or projects modelled on it, to better motivate students, particularly to foster the interest of socially orientated learners. However, these responses do not suggest that YATT was unmotivating; indeed, wanting more detailed materials suggests interested learners! Let us now turn to a discussion of the most significant, transferable findings, including the analyses' most unexpected finding, that practice-based language learning emerged explicitly and recurrently as a theme of participants' feedback on their YATT experiences.

Discussion of findings
This section offers a critical discussion of the transferable findings which arose across the analysis of the five sets of feedback, namely findings in relation the non-university nature of the YATT, learner motivators other than university grades, and language learning in CLE.

CLE in civil society
Non-university led CLE is novel (and even controversial), as the Literature Review explained. This study did not ask whether YATT "counted" as CLE by being the same as existing models, but whether, in the eyes of its participants, it offered learning and values that echo the way scholars and clinicians define and describe CLE. In revealing what is meaningful, and valued, to participants, we can be provided with additional ideas to enrich the range of CLE structures, participants and activities, and  It was also limited in terms of formally including reflection activities to aid the development of reflective legal practitioners. CLE adaptations learning from YATT should address these shortfalls.

Motivations
The study also enquired into what motivated the participants, given that universitybased motivational resources were unavailable to YATT, it being run by a civil society organisation. The finding is that, from participants' perspectives, YATT aligned with many learner orientations and interests theorised in the literature, despite being in a radically different setting. It was in relation to the feedback on feedback that we could most clearly see what interest/motivation had been experienced by participants, as well as in their feedback on the training and skills development they perceived themselves to have undergone. Looking at the results from a theoretical point of view, YATT seems therefore to have motivated personally-and vocationally-oriented learners because feedback and training are theorised to correspond, respectively, to those orientations: see Figure 1. The (far less prevalent) negative feedback calling for more social interaction within YATT suggests some participants were sociallyoriented and that their motivation could have been better catered to; however, the strongly positive feedback in the multiple choice questions, especially in the question on enjoyment of activities, shows that socially-orientated learner motivation was fostered in other ways.
My argument is not that CLE must always motivate students in the ways YATT did; probably, many university CLE courses already do so, in addition to motivating learners through grades and course credits. The key angle to discuss is that these participant responses are not all from students, but also from professional volunteers involved in YATT. YATT was unusual in many ways, but not in demanding active participation from specialists/professionals/practitioners. Such participants also need to be and to stay motivated to make the active learning of CLE happen in university Let us turn back to the skills that participants nominated as having been developed, in response to the Set 3 questions. In analysing that Set, I noted that legal and language learning were emerging together and as interrelated. Some of the skills nominated may appear at first blush to be language rather than legal skills, such as speaking with both style and confidence, speaking clearly, organising ideas, responding quickly, using facial expressions and gestures, and adapting to being on stage/nervous. But lawyers (especially advocates) also rely heavily on these skills, in whichever language they use. It appears that YATT participants were particularly attuned to noticing improvements in these skills and providing feedback about them, perhaps because YATT was offered bilingually and, for many, undertaken in their second language.
With our focus sharpened by these results, perhaps we can see better that integrating communication skills with legal skills is one way most CLE already goes beyond lecture-based legal education. This feedback serves as a reminder that legal practice is in many ways about communication, not only legal know-how, and furthermore that language and communication skills are a facet of a legal education that practice-based learning, more than doctrinal learning, can develop. Learning to communicate appropriately is at the basis of practical legal training because communication practices are embedded in lawyering in "real world" contexts. An improved ability to express one's thoughts, to be confident (authoritative, even), clear and quick off the mark, to effectively emphasise or clarify a message through body language and many of the other language skills these YATT students noted are "soft skills" law students should hope to develop even if CLE is undertaken in their first language, in order to improve their ability to work with various clients and in court.
The relative invisibility of language and communication skills in CLE theory is not necessarily because these are unimportant in reality. I suggest, rather, that the relative invisibility is the product of a disposition well-known in sociolinguistic literature, namely, that non-linguists often mistakenly regard language as something that is simply there and "naturally" learnt. Indeed, many existing legal educators may already hope that CLE students learn to speak and write and communicate like lawyers, and this finding helps bring that aspiration to the fore. Especially in non-Anglophone countries, English language may be an important feature of CLE task

Conclusions and contributions
YATT was a putative CLE initiative from outside the university context, and outside the Anglophone and common law contexts. Given the innovative form of YATT and the need to develop the literature, and the practice, of alternative models of CLE, it was important to work with the data available in the form of feedback survey 86 Burke and Zillmann, n9, p.34. responses despite their limited utility for quantitative analysis. The qualitative, thematic analysis of participant perspectives is, itself, a contribution to CLE literature.
Along with the quantitative analysis of the multiple-choice feedback, the qualitative analysis found evidence that the practical learning and vocational legal training purposes of CLE were seen to be present in YATT by those participating in it. The students and professional volunteers who participated in YATT in 2011 and 2012 perceived it not only as educational, but as practical and legally relevant education incorporating real-world activities and personnel. The practical learning was what the participants valued most about YATT. However, the another common (but not necessarily universal) purpose of CLE, serving a public interest, was largely not commented upon in the data, so the data do not strongly support a finding that YATT was perceived by participants as public interest oriented practical legal education. A critical discussion of these findings in Section 3 contributed to debates in the literature about whether CLE must engage with real, current matters or may be simulationbased, taking the latter position, and encouraged further exploration of the yet-small field of civil-society-led and alternative CLE. In explorations of civil-society-led CLE, we must question the distinction made between CLE and other forms of practical legal education based on a public interest orientation, because civil society organisations are often publicly interested; Yilian Centre certainly was, both overall and specifically in offering its own version of practical legal education, in a radically novel version that did not rely on university leadership or backing.

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The study thus contributes to destabilising the distinctions between real problembased and simulation-based CLE or, on an even stricter view, between CLE as real and PLT as only simulations. As canvassed at the start of this article, there are diverse views on these divisions in the literature. There is nothing in the participant feedback data to suggest that YATT was perceived as inauthentic or lacking in educational or vocational relevance, despite being simulation-based. The point for discussion, arising out of these findings, is whether we need to police the boundaries of CLE so strictly when simulation-based legal education can be experienced as valuable by participants, as it was in this case, and moreover whether we need to police the boundaries of CLE so as to exclude innovations that cede leadership to civil society organisations or engage multiple universities' students at once, to note some of the atypical features of YATT. These questions are worth considering in further studies, especially if other, more real and/or more traditional CLE opportunities are not sufficiently widely available, as in YATT's case.
Further, building upon the thematic analysis results and the critical discussion in Section 3, this article argues that practice-based language learning be recognised and researched as an important part of experiential legal education and vocational legal training generally, and specifically of CLE. Communicative and linguistic skills are surely key aspects that educators hope students learn through interacting and doing lawyering (for real or mocked-up) in CLE, all the more because these skills are not studied or practiced much in the law school classroom. Nevertheless, I noted that the literature does not foreground this aspect of CLE, whereas the internal perspective examined in this study does. The communication skills which the participants felt they had beneficially practiced in YATT were recognisable as the stock in trade of good legal advocates and advisers. One implication of this finding is that, in countries where a common second language is used at law school and by professional lawyers (typically, this is English), CLE course design should emphasise the learning of lawrelated second language and communication skills. Educators can even use this aspect of CLE as an additional motivator to pique academically oriented students' intellectual interest and personally oriented students' self-development (see Interests in Figure 1). A second implication, for Anglophone contexts, is to do the same. Even in Anglophone nations, legal education could benefit from more explicit recognition of language and communication skills as integral, and CLE -given its practical and oftentimes interactive nature -is especially suited to developing them.
Finally, the study illustrated, empirically, that this atypical, non-university led CLE responded to a range of the orientations, intrinsic and extrinsic interests, and aims of learners which are theorised in educational sciences. Moreover, although certain sources of extrinsic motivation, including a desire to obtain a vocational qualification or academic grades, could never be met by this program, the feedback did not reveal significant dissatisfaction about this incapacity. Rather, this case study shows that civil-society-led innovations in CLE can be motivating, enjoyable, and educationally rewarding in the eyes of participants. This can embolden others to further explore